Dear Bill,

I just sent the following post to a bisexual discussion group i was following at Thought you might find it interesting.

In response to some of the recent discussion here: feel like I'm something of an odd man out, but here goes.

I myself will kiss guys (ones I like of course, not just anyone), hug, cuddle and be extremely affectionate. I rather like stubble though I dislike beards and moustaches. I like muscular chests, hairy or otherwise, and other things masculine. Effeminate men hold no appeal for me. If (when) I want feminine I'll go for real women. However I have no interest in either oral or anal sex with another guy (OK so I've "topped" a couple times, but it's not really what I like, never bottomed). I have never once sucked a cock, have never had the slightest interest in such, and couldn't imagine doing so. I've had umteen bzillion bjs - mostly from guys - and frankly I can take it or leave it. For the most part I'd just as happily do without.

With guys I primarily like frottage. For those who don't know what that is - and I suspect there's quite a few - I highly recommend checking out the website Heroic Homosex.

I'm reminded of a line from the movie "Sex, Lies and Videotape" - to the effect that the lead actress (can't remember who that was) said something like she was so much into the dick that sometimes she forgets there's a guy attached to it. Well I'm just the opposite. I like the guy who happens to have a dick attached to him because he is a guy. Dick ain't never done nothing for me. Zippo. I like the guy himself, the overall musculature, physique, persona. None of this is meant as a personal attack against any of the other

posts, I'm just spewing out my gut reaction. I keep seeing posts from guys who claim they're not attracted to other men but they like cock, or they'll suck cock but not kiss another guy, or they want to get fucked but without any affection. To me this seems so totally bassackwards that I find it incomprehensible.

Defining bisexuality in terms of oral or anal penetration strikes me as gross ... well, I guess I'll use the term "alienation" for lack of any better. There have been many human cultures down through history - and please understand I'm not advocating this by any means - in which men and women lived in totally separate worlds socially and only came together quite literally for procreation and virtually nothing else. In such cultures both men and women formed virtually all or nearly all of their intimate relationships (whether or not there were sexual elements to that intimacy) among members of their own gender. Even in less rigid cultures most people developed most of their primary bonds among members of their own gender throughout most of history. It's just in our modern western culture that same sex friendships/intimacy has been devalued in favor of the nuclear family.

Male bonding among men (or female bonding among women) - whether or not there is necessarily any erotic component to that bonding - is centrally important to all men - gay, straight, bi, whatever - whether they recognize it or not.

For many "straight" men this bonding may have largely taken place earlier in life such that they don't even recognize it for what it is, but it's still there. Many straight men will even acknowledge that their best friend is just as important to them as their wife, maybe even more so in some cases - but they're still "straight," that is to whatever extent arbitrary and imprecise definitions like straight, bi, gay have any real meaning.

For me, to define bisexuality in terms of oral/anal penetration is reductionistic, diversionary, and even just plain wrong. I know that I for one - and I really don't think I'm that much of an oddity - seek masculine-to-masculine bonding, friendship, and yes love. But it's not the only thing. This in response to Wendy's query why I don't just stick with men and not bother with women: important as male friendships may be, it's not the whole story. I feel an incompleteness without the availabilty of viable women sympathetic to this other need. Call it the yin-yang thing. It's very normal and very human to need intimacy with members of both genders. The content of that intimacy may vary from culture to culture. And I feel many sexual practices may well be determined by fashion.


Re: BiSexualComment


I find this post very interesting. Modern society doesn't seems to recognize the importance of male bonding (and I don't mean it only in sexual terms) and "romantic" (heterosexual) love is the main topic of film, novels, Tv serials and shows. But until a century ago, relationships between men were strong, important and often quite "romantic" (with or without sexual overtones). Looks at the writings of authors like Whitman or D.H. Lawrence who, in his masterpiece "Women in Love" (1921), wrote with depth and intelligence about the need of one of the four main characters, Birkin, to have a bond with a man as strong and important as that with his own wife. (In the same novel, and the movie based on it, directed in 1969 by Ken Russell, there's also a nude wrestling scene between Birkin and his friend Gerald). Many men during their lifetime feels that same need and often they find that cock to cock is the best and more natural way to express that need. It's part of being a man, straight, bi or gay. But like the debate about aggression, a natural male feeling that many try to classify as negative, deep male bonding is often considered just a "homosexual inclination"... It's a great loss for us all, but modern society is often blind to the most important needs of his members...

Robert Loring

Re: BiSexualComment


Boy Andrew you have hit it right on the head. You're right...male bonding is important and, in fact, it is NECESSARY as well as normal and natural. Modern society is homophobic to the point of being psychotic about it. Historically, C2C and male bonding ARE the NATURAL male relatioinships and our modern rejection of this is the exception and NOT the rule. C2C IS part of being a MAN and even though modern society rejects this notion it still does NOT change the FACT that C2C is a part of Manhood and male bonding.

One of the main theories in Sociology is that much of the deviance we see in our modern world is the DIRECT result of a LACK of male bonding and I agree with that theory wholeheartedly. If you notice, modern society has classified MOST normal feelings as "abnormal", "negative", or as "homosexual inclinations". Yet the fact is that such feelings are NOT abnormal or negative and they certainly are NOT "homesexual inclinations"!!

You are also right, Andrew, in that modern society is often blind to the needs of its members and this ignorance only produces an even sicker society that is plagued by confusion, greed, and egotism. Ignoring something is a matter of CHOICE and along with society's choosing to ignore the needs of it's members they have also chosen to not care because we live in an egotistical society in which we mistakenly believe that "it's all about me and to hell with everyone else". Now THAT IS ABNORMAL THINKING!!

Extremely large numbers of males are "lost" today and part of the reason is the lack of male bonding in their lives. We need to return to that tradition of male bonding, a tradition which has not been for hundreds of years BUT for THOUSANDS of years!! Society needs to REALLY get beyond their own homophobia and MEN need to really start being men again. Until that happens we will continue to live in an ever increasingly confused and misguided world and there will be no peace because without male bonding there can be NO BROTHERHOOD (which is the very root of Peace).


Re: BiSexualComment


I agree with Andrew's comments.

Also, for the first time in over a year I met up with a guy at the beach (This is southern hemisphere!).

He had a spot among the dunes and shrubs that line this beach. We both knew what we wanted but commented on the weather first up! Sunny late afternoon and the sound of a receding tide.

We were soon stripped down and bonding by touch on arms, chests, legs .... Moving our torsos one against the other. Feeling the sun on our bodies.

Eventually rubbing our cocks together, fondling our balls. There was no penetration. It was not an issue. We were both (and we both have female partners of many years) happy to have shared this intimate time together. And we hope to repeat the experience.

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