bill's note:

in these two posts, The Ultimate Male Union and The Feminization of Gay Culture and Sex, Cockrub Warrior David McQuarrie has brought a new frankness and boldness to our discussions with other gay men.

David is forthright and unapologetic in his advocacy of frot and his dislike of feminization.

As is club philosopher Warrior Don F in his two replies.

The Ultimate Male Union

Warrior davidwmnet

Posted 7/25/01

Hi guy!

I'm glad you're taking the time to stop and read my thoughts on this very important topic of male intimacy.

For decades our gay culture has told us that the "ultimate and only" culmination of two guys satisfying their sexual union was through anal sex, bull shit!

The above scenario assumes that one partners pleasure, the fucker, is more important and is at the expense of the one being fucked. This is not right and doesn't have to be.

The age old, natural and completely normal male response for many of us started in puberty. We rubbed our dick with our hands or against something, like a pillow, because it felt good. Hey that's what we did because it's what came naturally to us. Some how as we grew the focus changed from pleasure to domination. Where one guy was the "top" and the other poor bastard was the "bottom".

Now I guess for some that scenario may workout just fine. For me and I'm sure many other guys in our community here, that's not the case.

The ultimate male union is the cock-to-cock, balls-to-balls, mouth to mouth, full and equal union that comes from what we call "frot" or "frottage". In this love story, both partners feel the full emotional and sensual sexual satisfaction from every nerve, total skin contact.. WOW!!!

Imagine the sexual satisfaction you get from rubbing against your guy, the rhythmic movement of two bodies in total control. Cock against cock, legs and arms extended, hands clasping, mouths in full contact with each other's. The warmth, the sweat, one guy cums first or maybe you both cum together. You mix your cum in an act of love and equality. The warmth of your bodies, the tender touch of his lips, the warm jizz each of you has shared. Doesn't that just get you hard thinking about it. Well imagine doing it, it only gets better. Remember practice makes perfect!

So to you my brother reading this message, it's really quite simple. Sex is something that should be pleasurable to BOTH of you. You don't have to be ashamed or even explain your desire for full body contact. It's something you already know and feel. Don't get caught up in our current gay cultures fixation with anal sex, it's NOT the final and supreme sexual act between two male lovers. It's one guy getting fucked up the ass by another!

Do you really want that or is someone telling you that's the way it's supposed to be, it's NOT.

From one guy to another. Do what comes naturally for you. Something you felt as a kid, and know in your gut. Your sexual life and health will thank you. Not to mention the awesome climaxes you'll have. Get out the towels guy!

Thanks again for taking the time to read this. I hope I got my point across.

Bear hugs to you man!!


Reply from Warrior Don F

Well said. Well written.

Fact is, as we all know, two buds CAN feel the same sensations at the same time together. No feminine "role" is necessary at all. Doing what comes "naturally" is a subject that needs more attention, being that frot seems somehow instinctive for boys and teens, yet is totally ignored by the sub-culture. We wonder WHY?

As you pointed out so accurately, rubbing is the first thing kids learn how to do in puberty. It's the reason a boy's first climax usually happens in his underpants, while innocently rubbing in bed at night. The behavior is instinctive, yet as a sexual technique widely disregarded as vanilla or not-real-sex-at-all.

As I wrote in Warriors Speak, my first sexual encounter followed this pure instinct, since neither of us had any experience in something more "advanced," so as both virgins we had only our innate feelings for what seemed natural as guidance. Nobody told us what to do, or how, or what roles were necessary. And without anything other than those natural instincts, we mated directly, cocks and balls together, experiencing pure homosexual sensation with each other.

It's always been a mystery to me how something so obviously natural can be so ignored or deprecated by gay "culture" in favor of top/bottom roles and supposed need for insertion/penetration with one partner being a receptacle.

Aside from the obvious health concerns, we need to make our case that there is something far more basic in male psychology that offers buddies equality and mutual pleasure----those feelings we started out with tell us something. Cock rub is the natural way man.

Thanx for the great letter. Your thoughts outta be widely appreciated here.


The Feminization of Gay Culture and Sex

Warrior davidwmnet

Posted 7/25/01

Hey Bill

Thanks very much for your email, that was kind of you. I've been reading your material and I believe in the cause man. You can count on more input from me!

Thanks for the forum though dude, without it I might not have been able to express my feelings about frot. This is an excellent opportunity to reach the young guys who don't, or might not, know about other forms of male intimacy, aside from what they see in porn which unfortunately in many cases makes the "sex act" cold and unrealistic. This is an awesome topic dude and one whose time has come! With the rise in new AIDS cases in the young guys, they have to know about the alternatives. But as equally important man, it's what I call the "ultimate union". As I wrote dude, the love of one man for another can be so beautiful and expressed in such a powerful way. You know this, because you live it and had the opportunity to love your guy like you did and do still!

Lets get the word out to as many guys as we can. Gay sex does not have to be about, who gets fucked, wow there's a whole equality that can happen when we get passed wanting to fuck like a hetero couple do. As gay males we have an incredible chance to be who we are and express our love as MEN, not as tops and bottoms. That term "top and bottom" totally whacks me dude. We're MEN, cocks and balls, hairy chests and asses! Let's rejoice in what we have in common, instead of trying to "pigeon-hole" what "role" we'll play. We can both be "laid" without losing our masculinity. I think the fixation with "anal sex" has only added to the stereotypical impression the straight community has when they think about two men in love. Hey I think the same at times. It pisses me off to think that to be "gay" you are in some way "feminized" because of what "role" you might HAVE to take. Is "he" the pitcher or the catcher?

Well Bill, I think I've said enough tonight dude. It just pisses me off man, it's so unnecessary and causes so much pain especially for young guys coming out.

Take care man!

And you're right dude, COCKRUB WARRIORS DO RULE !

Ciao, David

Reply from Warrior Don F

The ULTIMATE UNION is right! A perfect expression of what so many seek but rarely find in the gay culture of today with the emphasis on top/bottoms and rear-end focus. The pairing of two masculine guys can, and should be a beautiful thing---joining as males, without feminization of either, achieving their union through penis and testicles by having unencumbered wet, messy climaxes like MEN.!!

Yeah, the pidgeon holing of guys into pitcher/catcher roles pisses me off too. For years it seemed almost impossible for the sub-culture to see it any other way. Regular guys who sought other regular guys were auto-trapped in preconceived roles they didn't want or couldn't identify with. Questions like: "How can two tops be compatible?" betray the ignorance we are often dealing with. But now, thanks to Bill and this forum, we can finally express ourselves without the usual exasperating roles being foisted on us.

Man, when you feel your buddy's cock and balls against yours, is there anything feminine about that? Or "after" when your both relaxing together in the slippery mess of warm semen between you, is there anything feminine down there?


It's time we stood up to this crazy notion that men can't join as equals.

On 9/30/02 Don returned to David's original post and added these remarks:

Reply from Warrior Don F

Re: The Ultimate Male Union


Man, excellent post you wrote, succinctly bringing together all the elements for m2m mating----physical, mental, emotional in a way that's eminently readable and TRUE.

Your statement accurately echoes my own thoughts on how sex betwen guys can and should be, i.e. a unified MALE experience for both buds. The mutual stimulation of cocks and balls together is a totally masculine act that identifies both partners as guys joining together.

And, as I've written myself, the moment of truth, symbolic of joining, is when buddies achieve union through their semen, together establishing the mutual male link between them in the most intimate way possible.

When buddies cum together, is there anything FEMININE "down there" ? Hell no. It's a wet, messy, totally MALE experience for both of them. No doubt of it. And that makes it a MENTAL union as well as a physical one.

I also agree with your comment on "instinct" re rubbing as being a natural development. Only I wouldn't confine it to puberty because for many (incluidng me) it was much earlier. Don't even know at what age I learned to climax that way, but while still in grade school around 9 or 10 I can still remember masturbating under the covers in bed at night. It was my "secret" thing after the lights were out and I was alone touching and fondling my bulge until my legs went wide apart and I got that awesum feeling in my underpants (didn't know what it was called). The point being the early association with rubbing and sex was already an established fact by the time puberty hit.

From discussions with Bill and others there seems an agreement that it IS instinctive behavior and therefore no surprise it's the first thing many young guys experience together. No coaching, no pre-conceived ideas, no advice required....just following mutual instinct is all it takes.

This transitions to the idea that it is a fully NATURAL male/male sexual act, so fundamental that it can occur between virgins without any prior experience whatsoever.

It begs the question then: WHY would guys abandon their natural instinct for something which is wholly UN-natural and UN-masculine? Peer pressure? Group expectations? Brainwashing? Identity crisis?

Who knows. But writing such as yours can help return some logic to a dismal sub-culture-focus on analism and death.

Your statement oughtta be published in every mass media out there to champion true MALE union as it can and should be.

Thanx bud for a terrific post.

Gayman jax

Re: The Ultimate Male Union


Wow---I just read davidwmnet's message -- The Ultimate Male Union. It really said what I feel about men with men, a full and equal union, face-to-face, body-to-body, penis-to-penis, balls-to-balls. And I do feel that I have found my brothers, here at this site.

mr. cad

Re: The Ultimate Male Union


Great message, right from the heart. You put into words what so many of us feel. For years I thought I was the only one that felt that way. This sight has been great for me.



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