riverman

Re: Warriors in "Lord of the Rings?"

3-11-2002

Yes, I did too. Saw Lord of the Ring Sunday and then Ali Christmas day. Both in a sense were about brotherhood, weren't they. In Lord I also liked the bond between the fighters with Frodo. Ali clearly was a man who stood up fought for what he believed in. Like the scene of Ali hugging Jerry Quarry for along time to assure him that the fight was over and that he was ok. And, the bond between Ali and Joe Frazier - two fierce warriors who had great respect for each other.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Warriors in "Lord of the Rings?"

3-11-2002

these are two terrific posts -- thanks guys

when we read myth or history or biography or just watch the news, it's important that, like warriors riverman and steve, we're able to see those elements that are relevant to our own lives and use them as supports for our lives

i talk about that in Mythic Identification and the Warrior Bond on this site

brotherhood, respect, and the bonds between fighters -- all are vital and literally ancient themes -- at least as old as Gilgamesh -- and as relevant today as they were 5,000 years ago

i know there are some guys into fighting -- often guys into anal -- who get off on seeing an opponent annihilated, but what speaks to me is what riverman talked about -- the embrace at the end of the fight

it's not unusual for fighters to hug at the end of a hard-fought bout, to show both respect and affection for their opponent -- i've even seen (little) kisses exchanged

and that's what the cockster has posted about in a different context -- how cock fighting leads to cock mating

and of course there are often ritual aspects to both fighting and war -- many rituals in boxing, and as i've talked about in Nude Combat and will be adding to in later chapters on the Greeks, Greek warfare itself was highly ritualized

so those are elements we can incoporate into our own lives, as Warrior Paul does in A Noble Ideal

and finally we're seeing in the news right now many stories of bravery, not just from our soldiers who are fighting what i regard as a just war, but from civilians as well, like those who subdued the shoe-bomber on the Paris-Miami flight a few days ago

and i keep returning to Mark Bingham, because what he and the other men on that flight did was so brave and so important -- had they not acted, the Congress could have been wiped out, and we'd now most probably be living under martial law, our country significantly weakened

historically, the strength of the West and its democracies has lain in its citizens -- ordinary people -- it was a tiny band of citizen soldiers that stopped the Persians at Thermopylae

that's why Justice Louis Brandeis said, The most important office in a democracy is the office of citizen

so -- some guys coming into this club think the club is about cockfighting

it's not

the word warriors in the club title is there to honor all those men -- ordinary guys -- who've stayed true to their dream of dick2dick in the face of an oppressive buttfuck dictatorship

and to encourage them to continue to fight for their freedom and their lives

Mike_UK

Re: Warriors in "Lord of the Rings?"

11-27-2002

I agree that the Hobbits Frodo and Sam looked like they could be lovers. The actor that plays Sam is a really handsome guy too - very much my type - so that's a cool fantasy for me !!

Has anyone the film Oscar ? If you haven't - it's a British production about the life and times of Oscar Wilde - arguably the UK's greatest playwright and novelist. The lead role of Oscar was played by the gay actor Stephen Fry while Jude Law played his lover. There was a massive amount of Frot in the film - all the love scenes were frottage ones - although not too explicit - but definitely Frot scenes.

I've been wondering if the gay guys of the Edwardian era (or maybe the posh ones shown in this film) were totally into Frot, hence why they used Frot in the love scenes throughout the film and not just once or twice.

I would not be surprised if the Victorians / Edwardians really were very into Frot. At this time, the middle and upper classes were taught "the classics" which included a lot of Greek literature with all its "truly noble homoerotic male" ideas of true, deep and pure gay love. The Greeks had no problem in gay men being Men.

The researchers for the film Oscar may have found that Frot was popular at the turn of the century - so that they showed frottage in a film about gays. I'll see if I can check this out.

Bill Weintraub

Re: Warriors in "Lord of the Rings?"

11-27-2002

thanks mike

many people don't understand that there are shifts and changes in sexual fashion as in other areas of human behavior

and while analists often assert that anal penetration has always been the primary form of sex between men, that simply isn't so

in the 1950s, for example, oral sex predominated among American gay men, and anal sex was very much denigrated

and at the turn of the last century we have reason to believe that there was very little anal sex among men who had sex with men, since there's no mention of anal venereal disease in public health studies of tramps and hobos -- a group with a lot of same-sex activity

and of course we all know that the Greeks prescribed a form of frottage for their warriors

indeed, according to classicist Bruce Thornton, "The habitually passive homosexual was considered unnatural and an aberration in the Greek world."

unfortunately, though, a lot of guys in the club seem to have bought the analist line that anal has always been the majority practice and that men like ourselves are an aberrant minority

that's just not true

if it were, i would say so -- i'm not shy about speaking the truth

but it's not true, and the problem with believing it is that it puts you in a box -- it may be, to your way of thinking, an elite box, but it's still a box

so: the point of this site is cultural change -- changing the culture of men who have sex with men from one of anal promiscuity and effeminacy to one of phallic monogamy and masculinity

and if you don't think that's possible you need to think again

the culture of men who love men will inevitably shift and evolve

it's our job to make sure that as it does so it moves in a direction which is healthy, moral, and masculine

Jess

Re: Warriors in "Lord of the Rings?"

11-28-2002

I have always been a big fan of Tolkien. I have not read the books in ages but loved that movie. Not to be trivial about it, but one reason for the bond between Frtto and Samwise was because Sam was betroved to be Frotto's servant. I forgot while. I would have to reread the books. Makes one wonder if there was something else besides, Tolkien never added.

Away, I agree about Sean Astin being...ehhem...good looking. Personally, I will take Legolas over Sam or Frotto. I have this thing for young, smooth guys with long hair.

The other day I saw Dragonheart with Dennis Quaid. Another cutie. The bond his character had for the boy king was also extremely close. I always get a lump in my throat when he hugged the boy. Then again, I get a lump in my throat when I see any warrior carrying or holding fellow warriors. Another form of complete closeness between two men.