Honor between Warriors





Remember warriors one and all

those who have fallen, those who are falling and those who will fall.

Beyond pleasures' grasp it can be told that which holds us transcends the moment.

Gettysburg, San Juan Hill and doughboys too.

Korea, Vietnam and now Iraq.

And if you see a veteran say thanks warriors and brothers through and through and through.

Against the odds and Honor between Warriors



I have two dvds which give me inspiration.

One is The Battle Of Britain where the RAF outnumbered 4 to 1 turned back the might of the Luftwaffe. In a similar manner the frot movement faces a much larger opponent. With the same determination we can do the same. The land of Halloween and Alice In Wonderland will not prevail!

The other dvd Zulu displays honor among warriors. The Zulu warriors were so impressed by the bravery of a small detachment of British solders that they raised their shields in respect and turned away. Do not expect the honor of our opponents to be the same. They do not value life or each other.

With respect to the Alliance I bid you well.




What is a Frotpot? It is any three dimensional object. It could be an empty coffee can, a bowel, ashtray, even an empty shoe. You also need chickenfeed, that is to say small change someone finds in his pocket every day.

Every day place the chickenfeed into the Frotpot. At the end of thirty days a tidy sum can be used for a donation. We need more Frotpots and certainly more chickenfeed. It's painless easy to do and supports a noble cause.

A True Warrior



When I was only 18 years old I met a man, his name was Henry Yoda. He was a mild mannered man, unassuming, not pretentious in any way. We became friends right away. Henry would invite me to his home where we shared food and conversation. One day when I was visiting Henry he revealed to me that he was a 6th degree black belt judo instructor. But that was only part of the story. Henry was a vetran of the Korean War, the forgotten war some people say. He won the Distinguished Service Cross for exemplery valor. Singlehandedly he knocked out six Soviet T54 tanks. He was wounded in battle and lost a lung for which he earned the Purple heart. To be chosen by him is a high honor. Henry was a true warrior in every way body, mind and spirit.

If you have seen the DVD The Last Samurai it gives you a glimpse of what honor means in Japanese culture. It is hard to explain unless you have recieved such honor from someone who is Japanese himself. It is validation of spirit and strength which made me proud. Our relationship was not sexual but Henry was my mentor. How can one describe a David who slew six Goliaths that is six Soviet T-54 tanks. If I could sit in his shadow I would bow my head.

Faithfully yours my frot friends

Bill Weintraub

Re: A True Warrior


Thank you rm.

This is from the obit of a WW II Medal of Honor winner:

While taking part in a Veterans Day parade in Minneapolis in 1969, Mr. Rudolph told The Washington Post: "When I see that flag, it does something to me inside. I want to jump up and salute."

But his actions that drew the Medal of Honor, his wife said, were simply a matter of soldiers watching out for one another. "The fellas in his unit relied on him for leadership," Mrs. Rudolph told The Herald-Review of Grand Rapids in 2004. "He felt it was his duty to protect them because they were going to protect him."

That's as good a definition of warrior altruism as I've heard.

And warrior altruism is the key element in male bonding.

Which should really be termed WARRIOR BONDING.

Because that's what it is.

Men bond -- so as to be WARRIORS.

Thank you again rm for this and all your other posts -- which are excellent.

I miss my friend -- Memories of a small boy



I havent seen my friend Rick in almost two years. When I first met him he was suffering from pnuemonia and malnutrition. I took him in, it was a moral imparitive. One thing I learned that he was a wrestler in high school. That set the ground for many enjoyable encounters. I loved sparring with Rick. He used various holds on me I liked the feeling of the physical tension between us. He knew just how much pressure to use, he never hurt me at all. Now all I can do is wait to hear a knock on my door and there he will be.

What has happened to men these days no horseplay no sparring. What has happened to comradery? What I see now is a bunch of overfed men whose only contact with the world is a laptop and sterile conversation. I want no part of that I want the company of MEN like my friend Rick. When I was a small boy I can remember seeing young guys walking down the sidewalk sometimes three abreast their arms wrapped around each other. We had our own homemade clubhouse and some times we would have "fights" with other boys in the neighborhood. It was not the same thing as gangbangers you see in the hood. We were just like our ancestors had done for countless generations learning to be WARRIORS. NOW WE'RE IN THE TRENCHES! I AM NOT AFRAID OF CLONES. I will do my best in this endeavor to be your standard bearer no matter what may happen.

Your faithful servant

An electrical demonstration



Have you ever seen a Van De Graf generator? If you have it can be a hair raising experience. It is two phallic looking objects which discharge a bolt of static electricity when the potential is strong to overcome the resistance of the air. In an analogous manner when two men are having D2D sex exchange energy is built up and the energy is released as an orgasm which is experienced by both men. Anal sex is nothing compared to this. If I were to demonstrate this to a group of analists without them knowing about what was to happen they would get the hairaising experience of their lives. We as Frot brothers have always known about this, but we donít have to have a machine give us a hairaising experience.

At your service

Broadening our base



Your use of phallic symbols and the Apollo archetype is a good starting point. A warrior is a protector and a provider. If you are aware of Carl Jung's definitions of the male archetypes a male is represented by four basic symbols: warrior, father (logo), mystic or priest or shaman, and child. The father is the ethos (logo), he is conscience, ethics and virtue. The shaman helps a man understand that part of his universe that he cannot understand otherwise. A man who can understand his dreams is a good example of his shaman. Last but definitely not least is the child. The positive child is curious, playful full of imagination. The negative child is selfish, demanding and destructive. A child is close to nature. We as males have all of these attributes. When the +child combines with the warrior this results in sparring, wrestling, horseplay etc. It is enjoyable, relaxing and maintains bonds between men. In the analist group all there is, is the negative child. He is the singularity point of a black hole. He devours every young man that crosses his event horizon. We as men need to include all of these archetypes if we are to sucessfully defeat the analist culture. We as Apollo Father Mystic and +Child can serve as good role models to young men who are just beginning to be on their own. We as Frotmen by example can fully act as men by exemplifying these qualities in our everyday lives.

Your faceless friend

Going fishing



Want to go fishing? Do you want to catch a warrior? All you need is some spare time, some patience and a game of war. What is this game? Chess! Simply go to any place where people are passing by, set up your board and wait. You do not have to be a grandmaster or a Bobby Fischer or a Kasporov -- I'm certainly not! Have some fun meet new people. No bars, no bathhouses just fresh air sunshine and a good time.

analism a form of scat / oralism = cannibalism



We all know what scat is. A form of sex that involves feces to come into contact with any part of the body from sexual contact. If you were to tell the analists that they are scatboys they would look at you in disbelief. That is all they are, scatboys!

On another topic now. When an effeminate male ingests the semen of another man he is consuming millions of living cells into his body. By ingesting the living fluid he seeks to incorporate another man's masculinity as a part of himself. Do not let this happen my friends!

Greg Milliken

Re: analism a form of scat / oralism = cannibalism


From time to time I read the craigslist posting in my area because you can learn a lot from an idiot.

One time I came across a posting where someone was either looking to "fuck" or "be fucked" by a guy -- and in the same post said he's not into shit.

I wonder what world he lives on where fucking or being fucked in the ass doesn't involve shit?

Which makes me conclude that this guy, along with thousands of others, would really benefit from a world where shit sex isn't prevalent. I wonder how many other guys out there don't want their sex lives to involve feces but have convinced themselves anal is necessary and doesn't *really* involve shit.

I guess denial is more powerful than reality for a lot of guys.


Re: analism a form of scat / oralism = cannibalism


Greg, you are so right. So many men are running down a path of denial to an early grave. As Bill has said clearly so many times...the evidence is clear. ANAL KILLS...condoms or no condoms...ANAL KILLS...and you can't convince me that either partner involved in anal is ever really satisfied, ever fulfilled. They can't be, because anal kills a man physically, mentally, and spiritually.

Frot gives LIFE to a man physically, mentally, and spiritually. I KNOW because I am a FROT MAN, and my life is rich. Frot is real, basic, primal, masculine, and I believe sacred...there is NOTHING like the bonding of two warriors brothers face-to-face, dick-to-dick, heart-to-heart.

The analists don't know what they are missing...they are in MAJOR denial, their heads buried in the sand and their dicks buried in shit.


Working for nothing



Bill puts a lot of time and effort in on our behalf. When you go to work, don't you put in time and effort? Do you expect to be paid? Then why do you expect Bill to work for nothing. He is not a slave! If you do not donate then you are calling Bill slave by default! Bill is a warrior not a slave! I challenge everyone to donate. If any one does not answer this challenge then you get off this site! We don't need paper tigers we need warriors!


Re: Working for nothing


I believe in Bill's work. I BELIEVE IN BILL!

I get paid every two weeks, and after I found this site and found the liberation for my life that I so needed and wanted, I promised myself that I would donate from every paycheck.

I just made my regular donation...not a lot, but EVERY DOLLAR MAKES A DIFFERENCE!!! Just imagine how much could be done if evey man who visits the sites donated $1.00! The results could CHANGE LIVES on a grand scale!

Be a MAN and DONATE!




Bill Weintraub

Re: Working for nothing


Thank you both Rm and David.

I appreciate all your kind words.

You're both True Warriors.

Guys -- David is right -- a little each month from each guy would do it.

Rm suggested a "Frotpot" -- any container will do, just put your spare change in there every day, and send it in once a month.

These are easy and reasonable suggestions.

Guys -- the people opposed to us have budgets in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

Hundreds of millions.

I just posted about how in Australia, they have an $812 million budget aimed mainly at "AIDS prevention."

Which in Australia is condom campaigns.

That's $812 MILLION spent to deliver this message to gay and bi men:


The effect of that message is to IDENTIFY MALE-MALE SEX WITH ANAL PENETRATION.

And in that regard it's been very successful and will no doubt continue to be.

Is it successful in preventing new HIV infections?


Last year there was an increase in MSM HIV infections in Australia and New Zealand.

As there was in the United States.

As there was EVERYWHERE where condom campaigns were the only or predominant form of HIV prevention.

Condom campaigns do not work.

What we have to say does work.


Guys -- there is NO WAY I can do what you want me to do with NO MONEY.



But with a lttle money, we could have a surprisingly large impact.

Because we're telling the TRUTH.

Let me talk about that for a moment.

Yesterday, a guy named Mike who'd posted on this site a couple times before wrote to me asking that his posts be taken down.


Because, he explained, he doesn't want his "femmy" gay friends googling his email address and finding that he'd posted on a site which endorses Masculinity and is, horror of horrors, critical of effeminacy.

Yet, this man first posted in 2003, and our position on effeminacy then was not one jot different than it is today:

Effeminacy is a self-oppressive behavior which buys into the primary lie about men who have sex with men -- that they're not really men.

In his first post, Mike said he agreed with us:

Finding this site and seeing all the other masculine-oriented men here has been a godsend for me. It's caused me to remember growing up in the country in Arkansas, playing in the forest, not able to find another boy to express myself with sexually but still treasuring my masculinity. I remember retreating into an effeminacy that really wasn't me when I hit puberty because my fundamentalist upbringing had taught me that men who loved men couldn't really be men. By "effeminacy," I don't mean gentleness, the strong, caring kind that my dad had and has. That's a good quality I want to keep. I mean the bitchy queeniness, the self-pity and all that crap you all already know about.

Furthermore, this is a man who when he first came to us, had just lost his lover to AIDS, and said,

I did get socialized into the gay world enough to try using dildos on myself and actually convinced myself for awhile that I liked it.

But Stephen's death shocked me awake, even though his health had been on a slow, predictable decline for a long time. I threw out the dildos, realize that they were a part of the culture that had killed my man in the first place.


That's what dildos are.

Part of a deadly culture.

Suppose this site hadn't been here?

Would Mike have gone back to those dildos?

Would he still be uninfected?

And now that he doesn't want to be here -- now that he thinks we're too critical of the very same culture which by his own admission "killed his man," will he be able, guided by those caring peers of his, his FEMMY friends, to stay HIV or HPV or hep C free?


And everywhere else in the culture -- as we just saw in the post titled Channeling Judy.

If it was up to them, we'd all be channeling Judy and getting fucked up our femmy shitholes.

What's the point?

Why should we soften our stance on effeminacy?

So that these femmy idiots can further their self-destructive and hateful hegemony?

J-M Andriote, the gay HIV journalist who got infected with HIV but claims he doesn't want to know how, also wants to be able to dicate policy on this site.

He wants to determine who says what about his work.

Yet look at the world they've made.


I now feel a sense of healing within myself, as if living with HIV has helped me finally know that I'm loved and cared for. I'm learning to be present to my own suffering, and not to detach from my sadness.

What a message to send out to gay kids, many of whom are estranged from their families:

"Living with HIV" will help you know that you're loved and cared for.

And you'll learn "to be present to your own suffering" -- whatever the fuck that means -- "and not to detach from your sadness."


And can't you be loved and cared for without having a fatal disease?

Is that how emotionally impoverished your life was, that the only way you could be cared for was by making yourself deathly ill?

What these people have done is turned "gay life" into a DEATH CULT.

They're the CULTISTS.

And when we dare to object, they threaten.

Or they piously clasp their hands and say, Your language is too harsh.



We celebrate LIFE.

We honor LIFE.



Guys, I'm loved and cared for by my husband -- in sickness and in HEALTH.

And, speaking as someone who's 58, plenty of suffering will come your way in this life -- you don't need MORE in the form of HIV.

That's the message we need to get out.

Not -- no matter what you do, you'll get infected.

That's NOT TRUE.

It matters what you do.

And here's another TRUTH.




Mike objects to my calling males who do anal -- shitfairies.

But, using his own word, these are "femmys" who are into shitholes.

So, I guess instead of calling them shitfairies, we can just call them shitfemmys.

Fact is, I've tried for years to be polite to these people and it doesn't work.

Something has to be said to shake them out of their complacency, and I've learned that the word "shit" is effective -- because it punches through their denial about what really goes down during their "sex" lives.

Guys, we're in a war.

Not just about "men who have sex with men" -- but about life itself.

What is life about?

Is it about life?

Or is about death?

When we have sex, do we celebrate the organs of generation?

Or an organ of fecal excretion?

When we're in a relationship, do we strive to be faithful and true?

Or do we look to have as many encounters as we can?

Do we as Men cherish our Masculinity and exalt our Manhood?

Or do we deny our manliness, and seek to effeminize, to become something neither male nor female, a creature, as Robert Loring says, that was never meant to be?

And how do we regard disease?

As friend or foe?

When I was in the hospital, it took the staff a week to diagnose what was wrong.

Once they had, they brought me a special antibiotic, a liquid, in a cup, three times a day.

I would sip it, slowly.

The nurse asked me if it tasted bad.

I said No.

I said I'm sipping it because I want every drop of it to get into my body so that it can kill the pathogen which has been trying to kill me.

There was nothing romantic about the hospital, or that disease.

Or any disease.

But certain elements in the gay male community have created a cult around HIV, and around the unnatural and deadly act which transmits it.

And rather than eliminate this disease from that community, which could easily be done, they turn a blind eye to the ever increasing numbers of gay men infected.

That is wrong.

It is immoral.

And I will fight it so long as I have breath.

Help me.

Help yourself.

Help your fellow Warriors, the Men who are your Brothers.


© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

Bill G

Re: Working for nothing


You're right Bill, it is a cult. but not just a death cult, I believe it's part of a larger "victim" cult. People have been conditioned to accept being a victim in this country. Being a victim gets you sympathy, gets you attention, sometimes gets you money. But in the end being a victim to HIV/Aids only gets you death. Not a starring role in a Hollywood/Broadway love tragedy

Guys don't be victims! Help Bill spread the word by donating. Just like the above poster, finding this site changed my life and how I viewed myself, don't deny that to others.

Bill G




What is a blackwidow? It refers to a woman who is a predator of men. She is conniving bitch, has a sharp tongue and preys on unfortunate men. She strikes any male who gets tangled up in her web of lies and deceit. She injects venom into her victims and when she is through he becomes a husk. She hides in dark places waiting for some unfortunate young man to become her next victim. Homeless and disabled young men are easy prey. I have seen these predators in action and I would assume that many of them are members of the BFD. I know that I cannot stop what is going on all the time. Many of these young men would be resistant of any help that could interfere with their source of income. These assholes are smart. Some of them use loopholes in the law; they use the age of consent as a tool to avoid prosecution. These arachnids (blackwidows) should be put in jail not Bill! I would really like some response to this post. By the way PLEASE DONATE. THESE BLACK WIDOWS OF THE BFD SHOULD BE EXPOSED FOR WHAT THEY ARE!

birdflu the analist nightmare



All of us have heard of the birdflu virus(H5N1). It is as potentialy dangerous as the flu virus of 1918 which killed an estimated 30 million people. Scientists say that it is only a matter of time before a strain of this virus will spread directly from human to human. To the analists this will be a nightmare. Since they advocate a form of sex that leads to AIDS which greatly weakens the immune system this virus will kill many of those who who are HIV+ at a rate much higher than in the general population. My friends fidelity must be maintained! If you don't have a frot buddy remain abstinent until you find him. As for the analists they will learn their lesson the hard way!

A memory shared for all of us



There was that day in April 63. Our spotless uniforms not a speck of dust seen. We could see our faces on our shoes. The headwind passed across our faces. Down the whirlybird all three wheels gently touched the deck, the door opened a footstep placed. The boson, white braid and gloves, played his silver pipe. Hand salute the order given up the halyard went the flags. At the top the Presidential Flag followed by the Marine Corps commandant's and the admiral's ensign. President Kennedy passed us by. Hand salute done we looked ahead. I looked as far to one side as I could turning my head as far as I could without being noticed. The President passed by the honor guard as they played Hail To The Chief. At the podium he stood as two IF-9's flew overhead 21 charges following behind. A warrior's dream come true you say? Any one of you my brothers could have been there. Not just me. All of you were with me that day. I abide in you and you abide in me. If any of you warriors have some experiences to share please do no matter what they may be. We have a collective memory and pride that the analist culture cannot compare!

Robert Loring

Re: A memory shared for all of us


I remember first visiting Rome and gazing upon the ancient Coliseum and the ruins of the Roman Forum. I thought about what Rome must have been long ago. How grand, imperial, and masculine she was. I imagined Gladiators fighting in the Coliseum as Caesar sat watching down below his imperial perch. How masculine ancient Rome was. How homoerotic it was! Man on Man....Warrior on Warrior!

To quote Moseley above, "Any one of you my brothers could have been there. Not just me. All of you were with me that day. I abide in you and you abide in me. If any of you warriors have some experiences to share please do no matter what they may be. We have a collective memory and pride that the analist culture cannot compare!"

Sir Robert

The myth of Sneferu



There is a story about Sneferu, a story of humbleness a lesson of respect. Sneferu lived around 2600 BCE and was the father of Kufu who built the Great Pyramid at Gaza. So the myth goes Sneferu was on his royal boat and along the way he summoned a handmaiden to come to him. She quickly tried to place a comb in her hair but it fell into the Nile. Sneferu seeing what had happened commanded that the royal boat be stopped. Then he parted the river and the royal boat settled into the muddy bottom. He stepped off his boat and retrieved the comb mud in his hands and gave it back to her. He stretched out his hands and the waters closed and he resumed his journey down the Nile. Mud on his feet, mud on his hands, Ruler of the Two Lands, Incarnation of Ra did this for a woman a servant, a handmaiden. This is a myth that exemplifies a sterling character of a man who was revered by his people for over a thousand years. Contrary to common belief the Egyptians did not have slaves. Although they conscripted their workers they were paid and gladly worked for their king hoping that they could be with him in the afterlife. Greece of what I have heard so much said had one of the highest ratio of slaves to owners in the ancient world and yet is said to be the cradle of democracy. Thutmose III probably wore a perfumed wig wore makeup and used scented oils when he bathed. Don't be fooled. He was one of the greatest warrior kings in Egyptian history. The Ptolemy's tried to be like the Egyptians not vice versa. The sun was setting for the Egyptians but the Greeks were just getting out of the cradle. Bill I still hold your core beliefs about being a warrior. A healthy dialectic furthers our evolution as brothers. You will always have my respect and support.

Bill Weintraub

Re: The myth of Sneferu


Hey Rm

I know you're a true Warrior and your posts are all terrific.

Let's talk about slavery first.

You're right that the Greeks, at certain points in their history, kept large numbers of slaves.

As did the Romans -- frightfully so.

But during the period which most concerns us, archaic and classical Greece, which ran from 776 BC to 323 BC, the major slaveholding city-states were Athens and Sparta, neither of which was typical of the Greek city-state.

Victor Davis Hanson, who's a formidable classicist, and who has taught at both Cal State Fresno and West Point, makes two arguments:

1. That the Greeks invented what he calls "The Western Way of War"; and

2. That while Athens was a maritime power which used slaves to work its silver mines; and Sparta a system of large farms worked by an enslaved populace; most Greek city-states were agrarian, and consisted of small free-holds -- small farms.

And that it was these independent farmers who were really responsible for the Greek emphasis on "private property, constitutional government, and individual rights."

Hanson develops that view in his book "The Other Greeks: The Family Farm and the Agraian Roots of Western Civilization."

And it's a classic.

As is his "The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece."

What were the gifts of the Greeks and Romans to subsequent civilizations?

This is Hanson's list: "constitutional government, civil liberties, free exchange of ideas, self-critique, private property, capitalism, and separation between religious and political/scientific thought."

That's quite a list.

And on this board I've often talked about the Greek city-state of Thebes, which was agrarian, and how under Pelopidas and Epaminondas, the Thebans liberated the Spartan slaves and ended forever Spartan power in Greece.

In his book, The Soul of Battle, Hanson compares Epaminondas' march through Lakonia -- the Spartan homeland -- with Sherman's march through Georgia.

Sherman knew about Epaminondas.

They both freed slaves.

Now, my primary interest in the Greeks is as a Warrior society which openly celebrated erotic bonds between Masculine Men.

The Greeks are not unique in that regard -- to the contrary, they're the norm -- but they're unusual in that we have a large literary and pictorial record of the love of Man for Man in ancient Greece.

What about Thutmose and his perfumed hair?

The Greeks borrowed from Egyptian civilization, but they tended to be innovative where the Egyptians had been static.

So, for example, the nude male statue that we know as a "kouros" obviously started from an Egyptian model, but became more and more naturalistic over a period of about 200 years:

Similarly, certain Greek warriors elaborately dressed their hair.

Indeed, when the Persians sent men to spy on the Spartans at Thermopylae, they were surprised to see them combing and dressing their hair.

The Great King asked of his spies, so the story goes, What were they doing?

And the answer was, They were combing their hair.

This vignette is often cited as an example of Spartan sang-froid, but it was also part of their culture -- they wore what appear to resemble dreadlocks:

Spartan Warriors carry the body of a fallen comrade.

So: Warriors can be sensitive, and artistic, and they can dress their hair.

We've never said otherwise.

None of those acts are ipso facto effeminate.

Effeminate behavior is a parody of traditional femininity as defined by the individual culture.

What concerns me in my own work is effeminacy in gay-identified men who are part of contemporary gay male culture -- analism -- and the way that effeminacy plays into self-oppression and self-destructive acts such as anal penetration and promiscuity.

And the effort made by contemporary gay male culture -- analism -- to force ALL men who have sex with men to fit that mold: anal, promiscuous, effeminate.

That's why you don't see a geniuine and sincere outcry from gay community leaders over the continuing spread of HIV.

Because to truly attack that spread, they'd have to go after anal, promiscuity, and effeminacy.

And that they will not do.

What we of the Alliance do instead is present a model for men who love men which is Phallic, Faithful, and Masculine.




And that's the model, a Warrior model, which must prevail before we'll see genuine change in the lives of Men who Love Men.

Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.

daddys and punks tops and bottoms



I remember when I was a young man being approached by an excon who said to me, "You pretty boy I wanna be your daddy. I wanna punk your ass." I thought to myself no man is going to be my daddy and I wasn't going to be his punk! Tops and bottoms, daddies and punks. What a tragic comedy it is for it goes a step further. Some daddies are punks and some punks are daddies. It makes you want to cry or laugh. Are any of my frot brothers out there daddies and punks? I DONT THINK SO!

male identity



When I was a boy we had male figures to look up to: Superman, Roy Rodgers. John Wayne, The Lone Ranger, Kirk Douglas and more. We had boys clubs our own improvised forts and had fights with other clubs. I remember being the leader of my club and fighting with the leader of another club. I pinned him down and it was over. We had footraces bicycle races played dodgeball (one time I got smacked right in the face with a volleyball). Part of being a boy was getting skinned knees and elbows and getting dirt on your clothes. We climbed trees knew about what kinds of wild fruits to eat and how to be careful about bears when looking for blackberries. I remember drinking from mountain streams. Part of being a male is being close to nature and so being a natural male. So many males these days have no connection with the natural world even those who are just one generation away from me. How can one be called a natural male and not know of trees, insects, fresh air, and other animals? I find that the gay culture is so limited in its scope. All they talk about is sex, disease and death a never ending mantra. You cannot be a natural male and be separate from nature at the same time. It doesn't work! Go out into the woods, take off your shoes and socks and feel the soil with your feet! This is what it is to have a male identity . Commune with your natural world and you will become a natural male.

Robert Loring

Re: male identity


In "Fighting is Good" NakedWrestler posted:

"They're going to fight to real submission in a few minutes and they also know deep in their minds and hearts that they will be good friends after the battle. Real men always work it out and never carry a grudge."

That's true! Real men always DO work it out! The problem tends to be busy-body people getting involved that think they know best when, in fact, they do NOT know best. Our society today is full of such people and actually the best thing they could do is to pay attention to their OWN business and stay out of the business of other people! Instead of spending all their time focusing on someone else's life they need to pay attention to their own life and just maybe their own lives wouldn't be as messed up as they are right now! Real men work things out on their own and we DON'T need some busy-body telling us what to do. Leave us alone and let us work it out please!!

In "Male Identity" rm posted:

"When I was a boy we had male figures to look up to: Superman, Roy Rodgers. John Wayne, The Lone Ranger, Kirk Douglas and more. We had boys clubs our own improvised forts and had fights with other clubs. I remember being the leader of my club and fighting with the leader of another club. I pinned him down and it was over. We had footraces bicycle races played dodgeball (one time I got smacked right in the face with a volleyball)."

This is absolutely correct rm. We, boys, used to have masculine male figures to look up to. Manly ROLE MODELS! Male HEROES! But where are they today? According to the society dictatorship today all violence in any form is "bad" and "wrong" and, of course, any expression of a male being a male is deemed "unacceptable." So that pretty much limits the field of male role models. What? We are suppose to take on PeeWee Herman as a role model? Give me a break!

Males NEED MANLY role models! That's a FACT! And they need MASCULINE role models NOT feminized twink role models. Guys like Super-MAN and John Wayne. Guys like Kirk Douglas who starred in "Spartacus"....WOW! what a MANLY movie!! Role models that portray everything male. Role models that portray SELF DISCIPLINE not uncontrolled rage and violence. Masculine and manly male role models that reflect the Warrior Ethos!

rm further posted: "Part of being a boy was getting skinned knees and elbows and getting dirt on your clothes. We climbed trees knew about what kinds of wild fruits to eat and how to be careful about bears when looking for blackberries. I remember drinking from mountain streams."

It's a wonder some of us survived! But we did and now here we are still ticking even though we took many lickin's! As boys we didn't play it safe because playing it safe was not a part of boyhood. We all understood that life holds NO GUARANTEES of safety or security. Life is a chance and none of us came here to this world with any assurances that we'd live forever. Today, however, everything is centered around safety and security. We are almost forbidden to take ANY risks! Thus, we FAIL to actually experience and LIVE LIFE! Skinned elbows and knees was a NATURAL part of being a boy. Eating wild fruits and drinking out of streams was NORMAL and it was a part of growing UP! No one feared dying from eating wild fruit or drinking out of streams because the chances were REMOTE and they are STILL REMOTE today! But, alas, we are WEAK and FEMINIZED. We FEAR DEATH more than anything! We cling to life thinking we are immortal yet we are not gods! And what we never realize as a society is the more we cling to life in our safety PRISONS of our own creations the LESS we actually LIVE LIFE. For we become like the DEAD sealed up in dark and musty TOMBS! And in those tombs is where we live out our days never living life because all our fears stop us from ever living our lives! What a putrid existence most people live today! They have traded in the GIFT of life for a cheap "secure" imitation. Yet, the FACT remains that there are NO ASSURANCE, no SECURITIES in life no matter what we deceive ourselves into believing to the contrary.

rm wrote further: "Part of being a male is being close to nature and so being a natural male. So many males these days have no connection with the natural world even those who are just one generation away from me. How can one be called a natural male and not know of trees, insects, fresh air, and other animals?"

What rm posted in these sentences reflects the TRUTH of the AGES! Part of being male IS being CLOSE to NATURE! Humans were intended to be a part of nature. Yet, we try our best to separate ourselves from nature and turn to view her as the enemy, something to be conquered and pillaged, when in FACT nature is our MOTHER. We build our UGLY and HIDEIOUS cities and towns of concrete, particle board, steel, and asphalt and create for ourselves a FALSE environment and FALSE existence. Living in our little "secure" and "safe" FAKE environs we try to be happy but TRUE Happiness escapes most of us because we always feel something is missing. And something IS MISSING and what is missing is our NATURAL connection with NATURE! How can one be happy thinking that nature and the natural is the enemy? Answer: YOU CAN'T and you WON'T!! If you do not commune and try to be a part of nature, YOUR natural state, then happiness will ALWAYS escape you.

Modern society is sick today. Very sick! And, part of the reason is due to the fact that we have tried our best to separate ourselves from nature and from the natural. Instead we have erected falsehoods and labeled them "normal" and "natural" even though there is NOTHING normal or natural about our fallacies! We see nature as the enemy and we see the NATURAL LOVE and COMPASSION that NATURALLY exists between men as unnatural even though the FACT is it is EXTREMELY NATURE and NORMAL. How much longer will WE allow this to go on? Humans are quick to blame God and they cry out for some Savior to come take them out of their misery never realizing that it is we OURSELVES who have created this false UNnatural existence and God has left us to pull ourselves out of it ALONE! God is NOT in the Search and Rescue business!!

We want to know God yet we fear actually connecting with the Creator through Nature. In Nature one finds the Creator Spirit EVERYWHERE and in EVERY THING yet we fear knowing that truly! We want but, then again, we don't REALLY want! Nature is NOT the enemy of man! Nature is a part of natural manhood and nature IS our DIVINE MOTHER with whom ALL MEN must reconnect! In that reconnection lies part of our SALVATION. Salvation from our own selves!

rm continues: "I find that the gay culture is so limited in its scope. All they talk about is sex, disease and death a never ending mantra. You cannot be a natural male and be separate from nature at the same time. It doesn't work! Go out into the woods, take off your shoes and socks and feel the soil with your feet! This is what it is to have a male identity . Commune with your natural world and you will become a natural male."

It's just not gay culture it's also mainstream culture. The never-ending mantra of sex, disease, and death is the dominate mantra of modern society.

You're absolutely right rm! You CANNOT be a NATURAL male and be separated from nature at the same time. What this is saying is that you CANNOT and WILL NEVER be HAPPY for as long as people separate themselves from nature. Humans living an existence in which nature is the enemy NEVER works. It's an UNNATURAL existence. We cannot be naturally masculine males for as long as we refuse to reconnect with nature our Mother.

Go out and do as rm suggests. Commune with nature. Go into the wilderness without your shoes and socks. Take your shirt off or get nude and commune with nature and you'll be ASTOUNDED at how your own natural sense of MASCULINITY swells within your SOUL, MIND, AND BODY. Wanna be a masculine man? Then get your butt out into nature and BE a NATURAL MALE!!

I'm reminded of a story I once heard that relates to this subject. A father was worried about his two early adolescent boys because he feared they might be "queer." He just did not feel either of the boys were "manly enough." One weekend he decided to take them camping so he and the boys backed up some camping gear, food, and water, hoped in the family truck and off they went for a weekend in the wilderness.

This father began to notice something changing about his boys during this camping trip. He began to notice that while out in the wilderness, NATURE, the two boys began to act "more masculine." Unashamed they ran around without shirts the whole weekend. They appeared to be more aggressive and forthright in a self disciplined way. They seemed uninhibited by stripping naked and jumping in a lake or river for a swim. They seemed more courageous and less worried about taking risks. What this father noticed was that out there, in the midst of the wilderness during this camping trip, his two boys began "automatically" acting more manly, more male, more masculine. Needless to say camping trips became much more frequent with this father and his two sons.

I will never forget this father telling me about this first camping trip. One of the things he told me was how "surprised" he was while camping with his two boys because they seemed "like two Spartan soldiers out there in the wilds." And, I'll never forget his amazement at how the two boys seemed to "automatically" become more masculine.

Well of course they became "automatically" more masculine and manly because this father put his two sons BACK in touch with nature and the natural. He gave BACK something to his two boys that our upside down society had tried to take away from them and that is their own individual NATURAL MASCULINITY. He took his two city-slicker boys poisoned by the myths and lies of modern society and put them back into nature where they began to simply do and be what comes to all males NATURALLY. Like two Spartan Soldiers these two boys reclaimed their maleness and by the end of the camping trip the two boys were on the road to being what they were meant to be, Warriors!

The camping trips continued and this father began to notice something. He noticed that while out camping the two boys acted differently from when they were at home in the city. He could see conflict within them as they struggled in the city trying to maintain their masks of what society said boys should be, gender neutral, passive, feminized, etc. He noticed in the city the two boys seemed to be almost "enslaved" by something but when out camping the two boys were "definitely free and happy!". Not only did being out in nature promote the boys natural masculinity but it also promoted their happiness and joy. Something in nature spoke to their minds and souls. Something in nature liberated them from the chains that modern society had tried so hard to enslave them in. Nature called them back to their true selves. Nature stripped them of all their societal masks and fakery! Nature turned these two boys into masculine males!

She, Nature, made these boys MEN and WARRIORS!!

She gave BACK to them their own NATURAL MALE IDENTITY that modern society had tried so hard to steal away from them!


Sir Robert

natural war vs wmd



Natural war has been a part of our evolution for the last 6 million years. We faced our adversaries face to face. Our ancestral warriors contested territory to preserve natural resources. This spread out the population so that food, water and shelter could be available to all. That existence ended on Aug 6th. The brainchild Teller created a weapon so powerful that its destructive power was unlimited. This was created in 1952. Today the descendent of the warrior phallus has become Minuteman III and Trident SLBM's. In their aftermath there will be no songs of contest. No stories to tell their children. Now they will be able to create artificial viruses that will make HIV look pale in comparison. Once war helped save us. Where will we be in 2075?

Robert Loring

Re: natural war vs wmd


War has become so impersonal. No longer does the need exist for a man to face his enemy and engage in combat face to face. Now we can simply push a button or fire a rocket without ever seeing our enemies faces. Without ever getting up close to him and smelling his body sweat. Now we no longer need to look our enemy in the eye and measure him up against ourselves. War is now "clean" and "sterile."

There is no need for a warrior to push a button. Anyone can do that. Real warriors face their enemies face to face! They have no desire for "clean" and "sterile" war but only for combat as they look their enemy in the eye, warrior to warrior. They only desire to feel skin to skin and weapon to weapon. For the real warrior impersonal war is not war at all but is the action of men who are cowards! Fearful of seeing the face of their enemies. Afraid to get up close and smell the sweat of their enemies body. Scared to look their enemy in the eye, M2M.

The modern conception of a warrior is a degeneration of the traditional and historical conception of a warrior. But we need not be surprised as everything in our society today is a degeneration of everything traditional, historical, and normal. Our technologies may have increased but as men we have fallen far below our warrior ancestors!

Where will we be in 2075? At the rate we are going and with such powerful weapons in the hands of madmen of dishonor we will be living in a world of nuclear winter. Then we will realize that those madmen were not even warriors at all because they had no honor, no compassion, no common sense. But, by then it will be too late and the real warriors, the men of honor, will be no more.

We have allowed men who are dishonorable to become our leaders and heroes. We are allowing the weak in mind and spirit to rule. This is our greatest mistake and it will prove to be so by 2075. In ancient times such men would never have been allowed to rule over anything. They would not have been accepted into the ranks of the warrior. Yet, today we welcome them and their psychotic rule with open arms. Why? Because we now live in a society of dishonor.

Bill Weintraub

Re: natural war vs wmd


Thank you Rm and Robert.

Robert wrote:

Our technologies may have increased but as men we have fallen far below our warrior ancestors!

That idea is core to my foreign friend's analysis:

As he says,

If there is no heterosexual society there would be no homosexuals. And no heterosexuals either. Male-male sex is isolated only because in the western society, its spaces and its customs are completely heterosexualised (i.e. made mixed gender with pressures to be heterosexual). But heterosexual spaces are themselves unnatural --- and it was only through financial and technological power brought by industrialisation that the western society could create such an artificial unnatural heterosexual environment.


1. First off, we need to be clear that the Warrior Bond is a sexual bond.

And that the denial of that bond eviscerates both the Warrior and the Warrior Brotherhood.

My foreign friend said to me recently, that the more masculine the man, the more likely he is to seek out a sexually and emotionally exclusive bond with another masculine man.

I really want our guys to understand that.

That the love of MAN for MAN, far from being effeminate, is an expression of the most powerful form of Masculinity: NATURAL MASCULINITY.

2. Next:

Rm says,

the warrior phallus has become Minuteman III and Trident SLBM's

Again, a critical understanding.

Why did the Greeks and the Celts and so many other ancient and PRE-ancient peoples fight NUDE?

Because they understood that conflict was not just about territory, it was about phallus.


It was true man2man because the conflict was between men who were WHOLE.

Not cut off from and hiding their cocks and balls, but with cocks and balls in full view of friend and foe alike.



The Greek hero Tydeus
Notice the prominence of the genitals, and in particular the ball sac.

3. Centralization:

Again, my foreign friend:

it was only through financial and technological power brought by industrialisation that the western society could create such an artificial unnatural heterosexual environment.

In the West, financial and technological power is centralized.

Financial power in institutions such as banks; technological power in the hands of energy companies, which de facto are oil companies.

Of course this financial and technological power has given people in the West a very high level of material life -- a level the rest of the world aspires to.

But this centralized power has also been very destructive.

Of the environment -- of Nature.

Of the family -- the extended family.

And most of all -- of Natural Masculinity.

Financial and technological power has enabled the West to destroy homosocial spaces and replace them with heterosexualized space.

Thus destroying natural masculinity.

Thus enabling other forms of destruction -- such as that of Nature.

Because the Naturally Masculine Man, as Robert has pointed out, depends upon and cherishes Nature.

The separation of Men from Nature, and of Men from Men, is core to industrialization, and with it, heterosexualization.

So: the West has centralized and rationalized its technlogies, its finance, and above all its control of nature.

Including human nature.

Centralization is key.

Because centralization acts as the most potent form of social control.

And the most important form of centralization is that of energy.

Everything humans do depends upon energy.

Whether that energy is an ox drawing a plow, or a nuclear reactor.

In our post-industrial world, human beings are tied to the grid -- which distributes electricity generated through vast power plants which in turn depend upon the rape of the earth to gain their power -- oil, coal, natural gas, uranium.

As a Warrior, throughout my life, I have hated and resented the Grid.

Because I understand that it restricts my freedom.

But just yesterday, I saw an announcement of a revolutionary advance in the production of solar power, which will finally make solar competitive with fossil fuels.

If this technology is not thwarted by the immensely powerful oil interests, it has a great liberating potential.

Incorporated into roofs and walls, these panels will FREE individuals from the grid and from the vast energy companies.

And that is an essential first step.

I have said from the beginning that FROT IS ABOUT FREEDOM.

It is.

We cannot divorce the denigration of FROT from the degradation of human freedom which has followed in the wake of heterosexualization.

In the 60s there were those who argued that in technology, "small is beautiful."

I agree.

Man must never be the servant of technology.

Technology must always serve human needs.

And most especially now, the need of MEN to reclaim their NATURAL MASCULINITY.

Thank you Rm and Robert.

These are great posts -- the "male identity" message thread is also very important.

And I've given Rm's posts and the replies their own webpage, called Honor between Warriors.

Ck it out.

And remember:

The more Masculine the Man, the more likely he is to need to bond sexually and exclusively with another Masculine Man.

Yet we're living in a society that denies those bonds to Masculine Men.

Clearly, the society is fucked-up and us MEN are getting fucked over.

Robert: "We now live in a society of dishonor."

Guys -- the concept of "honor" is core to male-bonding.

Core to the Sacred Bonds between Men.

That's why it's denigrated.


Bill Weintraub

© All material Copyright 2006 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.


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