Warrior Rob Speaks

How do you want it? How do you feel?

These words are by Tupac Shakur, late rapper, poet, musician.

When I embrace these words (my wants, needs, and feelings), I am able to be a true warrior, true to myself and my brethren. When I reject these words, I find self-loathing, self-hatred, and a lack of respect for myself and other people. 

I gave my virginity to another man when I was 17 years old. I didn't have sex for the first time until I was 21. I met an attorney named Kevin through an ad in a local newspaper in Philadelphia. I went to his place. We got in bed and rubbed dicks. I lost my load to him twice that evening.

It was some of the best sex I have ever had.

In 1994, I moved to Greensboro, North Carolina and dated men who thought the only true sex was a dick in an ass. I let my true nature go and became that "big black cock" for them. I lost the feel and flow of my true cockrubbing nature. I lost my warrior spirit. One man and I stayed together for nearly five years. We ended the relationship last summer.

I finally had to admit that he and I were not sexually compatible -- though I loved him and will always love his tenderness and affection.

Now I embrace my warrior spirit. I do not honor anus. I honor the phallus. I realize to be true to myself, I must not be ashamed of my sexuality. I seek other men, other warrior-lovers, who quest for the joust: the Cockrub Warrior.

I know how I want it. Do you?  


reply from

Warrior Samuel

Yes, i do know how i want it and how to do it. I so appreciate this message post. Once when i was younger i and another young warrior came together for a night of sex. He was younger than me and insisted on anal intercourse. I knew i didn't want to be his bed warmer for his cock and yet i gave him the joy of being in me. I found it not satisfying at all. He was quite strange because he passed out or went into some strange trance as he was cumming. Strangest thing i've ever seen. Anyway, we got together three times after that initial first time. Well, i finally had to ask him to leave and we've never been together again. Frottage is absolutely the best! Don't get me wrong if a person likes anal, okay, but i don't. I will only provide the buttfucking if the other person really wants to do it, since I'm a primarily top guy. I am so delighted that the men i've shared intimacy with these last days have truly enjoyed frottage as much as i have...the bond we've shared is quite lasting and the man to man bonding is so satisfying.

reply from bill

rob's is as clear and concise an autobiographical statement as anyone will ever produce

i first ran into Rob in some of the yahoo wrestling and frottage clubs -- he was using the handle herc -- and he merits it

then i discovered his computer sim THE BRAWL

then i went to his home page and found one of his other autobio essays, Being Black and Gay: A Personal Journey

Rob is talented, thoughtful, and brave

i honor him, and i hope he finds his warrior-lover


Warrior Rob

The gay rights movement is lost. Again sex has become complacent with no value. We are dicks or asses. I can't stand it when someone asks me, "Are you a top or a bottom?" My friends don't understand why I wrestle? Why I fight? I don't understand them and their obsession with dick and ass, cock and butt, jock cups and jock straps.

If they were not so buried in the homophobic sexuality they would realize that their makeshift version of hetero sex is not the end all way of being.

I'm not against butt-fucking. Fuck on. It's only those gay men that seek to oppress me and my identity that I get angry. When friends tell me you and that guy would not get along because you're both tops, I get enraged.

Butt-fucking is not the only real sex between two men. In fact, it's the most oppressive.
So for my friends that ask "Why do you fight?". Here's my answer:

I am not trying to be butch. I am not following the hostile aggression of my straight brothers. My aggression is instrumental. It serves a purpose -- and means to an end. Erotic aggression. One man seeks to dominate another. The purpose is not to kill or maim, but to share a physical space that is unique to two men.
Yes, we are warrior lovers. Like Achilles and Patroclus we honor each other's warrior spirit. Like Enkidu and Gilgamesh we must fight to gain mutual respect. Like Set and Horus, we know that there are other men who seek to dominate us and we them. Like Bunyan and Bill, we know that sometimes our connections are fleeting and that a good brawl whether by cock or fist is a rite of passage.
We fight because we are self-reliant men of quiet power that realize it truly takes a strong, tough, and gentle man to love us.
So to my friends that ask, "Why do we fight?". Pick up a book. These images exist all throughout history.

We fight because we can.

bill's note:

Warrior Rob posted Why We Fight in Personal Stories on May 27, 2001.

His post came at a time when I was struggling with some of these issues in my own writing.

His words helped me -- a lot.

I posted the following reply:


Once again Warrior Rob has really blown me away with an incredibly concise and powerful post.

In an email to me about the post, Rob said "I just get tired of people questioning my sexual identity or throwing their identities in my face all the time as if that's the way I should behave. I tell them to keep their sex. It's not for me. It goes beyond sex. And that is what they do not understand."

And that's exactly right. What we're talking about in this club goes far beyond sex. What we're talking about is the essence of our lives.

That's why I keep bringing up mythology. Because myth speaks to our essence, and it's not realistic to expect human beings to flourish, or even live, without mythological support.

Rob describes three very powerful mythological male pairs, and once again he's absolutely right about them.

The ideal of heroes who meet, wrestle, and become lovers, was common throughout the history of male-male sex. It's the way Gilgamesh encounters Enkidu, and Greek homosexual eros was built around the institution of wrestling schools, where men, older boys, and youths would congregate, nude, to exercise, socialize, and look at and physically experience potential lovers. In any society that encouraged same-sex relations as an adjunct to the development of martial ardor, the muscular contest, the agon, was crucial.

That so many of us in this club have reinvented this form for ourselves, alone, completely cut off from the history and models of martial homosexuality, is remarkable, and supports, in my view, Jungian ideas about archetypes and Nietzsche's theory of the eternal return.

My lover Brett too had had many wrestling fantasies throughout adolescence and his young manhood, as when he wrote: "Bill and I become two youths in a high school gymnasium, tussling on a wrestling mat, wearing shorts, then jockstraps, then nothing, exertion and excitement making us sweaty, grabbing each other's cocks and pulling on pubic hair for momentary traction."

And although neither Brett nor I were violent people, we trained together in karate and were fearless in physically confronting anti-gay bigots, and so carried with us a masculine identity as warriors, fighters of the good fight, that was an essential part of our bond.

So never apologize for being into fighting. And never apologize for being masculine. Masculine isn't macho - macho is phony posturing. Masculine is effective - that's all it is.

And never apologize for being a warrior. Be proud that you fight. Read Warrior Patrick. Training in karate changed my life the way training in boxing changed Patrick's - 100% for the better.


Around the time that the Greeks institutionalized homosex, wrestling, and frot, they wrote a number of myths that featured same-sex lovers: not just Zeus and Ganymede, but Poseidon and Pelops, Apollo and Hyacinth, Herakles and Iolaus.

And of course Achilles and Patroclus.

The behavior of the men in these relationships was meant to be a model - and the model was very clear - it was monogamous, masculine, and martial.

In these warrior myths, personal loyalty is paramount, as is mutual obligation.

In the myth of Apollo and Hyacinth, for example, Apollo's mortal lover Hyacinth is courted by Boreas, the north wind. But Hyacinth, a Spartan teenager, refuses him, remaining steadfastly loyal to Apollo. Boreas kills him, but Apollo turns him into a flower so that he'll never be forgotten.

The Spartans thought this myth was so important that of their three annual festivals honoring Apollo, god of clarity and reason, one celebrated this very story: it was called the Hyacinthia. The message to Spartan warrior youth was clear: nothing is more important than loyalty to your lover.

(The Spartans had another holiday dedicated to Apollo called the Gymnopaedia, which translates as the Festival of the Naked Youths. Sounds sweet doesn't it? Men came from all over Greece to see the youths dance naked in "choral" groups, stomping heavily into the earth, the way men still do in Africa, Polynesia, Amazonia, Melanesia. Xenophon, an exiled Athenian aristocrat, wrote that he didn't miss a single Gymnopaedia in 20 years. I wouldn't have either.)

I believe that we get what the culture says we'll get. Our culture expects gay men to be promiscuous, effeminate, submissive, and into anal. And most of the time, that's what we get. The Greeks expected men to be monogamous, masculine, martial, and into frot. And that's what they got.

Our task is to build a culture as heroic and healthy as the Greek.

bill's note

in addition to myself, four other warriors responded to "Why We Fight":

posted 5/31/00

Warrior Andrew64

It's a different view of sex and love, and it's ours.

Top or bottom? Why should we follow this division, this absurd classification? I once read in a gay magazine the letter of a reader complaining because he couldn't find the right "bottom" lover. He wrote: - many "tops" answered my ad but I can't understand why they're doing it. What can two "tops" do together? - I laughed when I read this.

Two "tops" can wrestle each other, of course, and then cum together, united on the same masculine level, refusing classifications imposed by the society and by those who blindly follow its rules!

That's another reason why we fight, because it gives us that feeling of "being One", body to body, cock to cock, both "tops" and both men. It's a different view of sex and love, and it's ours.

related posts by Warrior Andrew64: The Wresting Way to Cockrubbing, My Own Kind -- Part II

reply from

Warrior Don F

Well said. Amen. You've summed it all up in very few words bro..

"united on the same masculine level" "both men"

Solid pharases that speak the truth about the equality we feel with our buds. No feminization, no "top/bottom" quandries, just the honest sharing of intimate contact between guys. Fact is, men can and do climax this way as we all know, and it's totally liberated, open and unrestrained without any containment or need for some kinda receptacle. <>That freedom is an expression of male unity at its best.

Your words help us all appreciate the comraderie we have found here.

Don F

related post by Warrior/Philosopher Don F: The Romance of Frot

reply from

Warrior Stockpeck


You are right!

I do not like to deal with someone who consider himself as inferior, I love people who consider as equal to me and it is much more arousal!

Equality, Love and Masculinity for men to men love!


related posts by Warrior Stockpeck: Erotic Wrestling is Best, True Stories of an Anonymous Foreign Wrestler

reply from

Warrior Roman Hero


You and I think exactly the same way about this kind of thing - and I have always been aware of the need to express male fraternity and brotherhood by an honest and open meeting of naked bodies and coupling of sexual organs, as an expression of our love and affection for one another and that general sense of well being and fun which goes with it.

For me,wrestling,frottage and cock-to-cock grinding have always been the ultimate in gay sexual expression - yet finding other guys into it has been so difficult. The mainstream seems (as you and Bill and many others have said) to be totally obsessed with anal and oral sex - yet many videos could be made so much sexier and erotic if they concentrated on frottage and men celebrating their bodies with one another.

There must surely be a need for it out there - but it is a market which is not exactly catered for at all - presumably because it is not "mainstream". For me ,dominance and subservience are not the key themes here - but equality. So often in wrestling chatrooms,I am asked if I am "top" or "bottom" - and people seem surprised when I say I am neither and that I want a good even match. I much prefer a match which is even and in which the thought of physically invading the other guys body is in fact the last thought on one's mind.Certainly,I love the hot,sweaty naked body contact - and the feeling of the two cocks rubbing and grinding together is amazing - what could be more relaxing than to feel at one with the other guy in that situation ?

I know that Stockpeck and others want to hear more stories and if I had more time,I would happily provide them.The main problem there is time - and a good story takes a long while to set up - but I will try my best to write something that will hopefully give some pleasure to others in this wonderful club.As my name suggests,I am heavily into Ancient Rome so something set in that era is the most likely outcome.Don't hold your breath too much on this one guys - but I really will try hard to see what I can do !

Good luck to you all out there and if anyone wants to chat privately, my E-mail address is

Take care frot brothers - and love to you all !


related post by Warrior RomanHero: The Jungle Match


Warriors Speak Home

Cockrub Warriors Site Guide

The Man2Man Alliance

Heroic Homosex

Frot Men


Frot Club

Personal Stories

| What's Hot About Frot | Hyacinthine Love | THE FIGHT | Kevin! | Cockrub Warriors of Mars | The Avenger | Antagony | TUFF GUYZ | Musings of a BGM into Frot | Warriors Speak | Ask Sensei Patrick | Warrior Fiction | Frot: The Next Sexual Revolution |
| Heroes Site Guide | Toward a New Concept of M2M | What Sex Is |In Search of an Heroic Friend | Masculinity and Spirit |
| Jocks and Cocks | Gilgamesh | The Greeks | Hoplites! | The Warrior Bond | Nude Combat | Phallic, Masculine, Heroic | Reading |
| Heroic Homosex Home | Cockrub Warriors Home | Heroes Home | Story of Bill and Brett Home | Frot Club Home |
| Definitions | FAQs | Join Us | Contact Us | Tell Your Story |

© All material on this site Copyright 2001 - 2010 by Bill Weintraub. All rights reserved.